Lee Holden | How to Boost Your Energy and Vitality with Qi Gong

Written By Kristel Bauer

LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS HERE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lee-holden-how-to-boost-your-energy-and-vitality-with-qi-gong/id1500457853?i=1000545627530

LISTEN ON SPOTIFY HERE: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6ezTLEdQwha7Wb4zDGBvwz

In this episode, Lee Holden explains everything you need to know about Qi Gong, including where it comes from, its healing properties, and how it differs from yoga practices. Listen in to learn how to feel your Qi in less than 30 seconds and why you should practice Qi Gong with your kids.

Key Takeaways From This Episode

  • What ''Qi Gong'' stands for

  • Qi Gong vs. Yoga practices

  • 2 breathing techniques to destress at work

  • Is Qi Gong useful for transitional times of the day?

  • How can kids benefit from Qi Gong?

Disclaimer: All information and views shared on the Live Greatly podcast & the Live greatly website are purely the opinions of the authors, and are not intended to provide medical advice or treatment recommendations. The contents of this podcast & website are intended for informational and educational purposes only. Always seek the guidance of your physician or other qualified health professional when you have any questions regarding your specific health, changes to diet and exercise, or any medical conditions.

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

Click here to sign up for Lee Holden’s two-week trial and get immediate access to five video classes for FREE.

 

About Lee Holden

Lee first discovered the healing power of Qi Gong after nearly losing his ability to walk. He was slide-tackled from behind by a rival soccer player and severely injured his tailbone.

He was amazed to see how quickly these ancient energy practices healed his body and allowed him to return to playing. He was hooked… and decided to devote his life to the study of ancient Chinese healing practices, so people in the West could benefit as well.

Lee is known as the “Accessible Qi Gong Teacher.” After 28 years of teaching, he has created a simplified system anyone can use to transform stress into vitality. He is a licensed acupuncturist, herbalist, and author (7 Minutes of Magic, Penguin 2007).

His popular library of Qi Gong DVDs have made him a regular fixture on American Public Television and over 105 PBS stations throughout the U.S. and Canada. Lee's Qi  Gong programs have been seen in over 50 million households.

Connect with Lee

 

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Kristel Bauer, the Founder of Live Greatly, is on a mission to help people thrive personally and professionally. She is a corporate wellness expert, Integrative Medicine Fellow, Keynote Speaker, TEDx speaker & Physician Assistant experienced in Integrative Psychiatry and Functional Medicine. 

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Episode Transcript

Lee (Teaser)

If you want health and longevity, you need to move your body in strategic ways. Movement is key. So when we're sitting at work, we can do movements in our chair. And the first place I like to start is checking in with our breathing, because breath is life. 

Kristel (Guest Intro)

If you are looking to reduce stress, Energy. You're going to absolutely love today's episode with Lee Holden. This is a particularly special episode for me because I used to recommend Lee Holden's Qi Gong teachings to my patients when I was practicing an integrative psychiatry and functional medicine. So it's super fun to have him on today. Lee is known as the accessible Qi Gong teacher.

He's been a regular on American public television and over 105 PM. The stations. He is an incredibly inspiring individual. That is a master at teaching Qi Gong. If you don't know what Qi Gong is, stay tuned. You're going to absolutely love what Lee has to share. I'm super pumped about this episode. Let's dive right in and welcome Lee Holden to the show.

Kristel 

Lee, I'm super pumped to have you here. Thank you so much for joining me. 

Lee

Thank you so much. It's great to be here. 

Kristel

For sure. Okay. So I have been following your work for quite a while. Super, super pumped to have a conversation with you today. And to start, I would love for you to share a little bit about yourself and Qi Gong practices.

Hopefully I'm saying that, right. Qi Gong. Am I saying. 

Lee

You are, and that's the hardest part about this practice? How do you say Q I N G you know, qui so I get all kinds of variations of that Clyde, John, but it is Qi Gong and, uh, you know, this word, Qi is really important and we don't really have a great translation and we translate it as energy or life force, but it really is your alikeness. What is the force that keeps you alive? And this doctor, friend of mine, he was like, you know what? I just don't believe in Qi it's just like, it's just not in my belief system. I'm a Western medicine doctor. And I said, okay, well, do you believe you're alive? And he was like, well, yeah, of course, obviously it's self-evident.

And I said, well, what do we call that? And he was like, hi, you know, we don't have a great word for it. We just take it for granted. And so in the east, they took this concept of a liveliness this mysterious way in when. We show up here without explanation. And it points to the mystery of life. And if we look at any aspect of ourselves, whether it's our consciousness, our mind, even our heartbeat, we run into the mystery.

We don't know why it works. I mean, you're a physician, the heartbeat starts and it keeps going, but it is still that mystery. And I had it explained to me by another doctor friend who was really into meditation and energy work. And he said the heart is like a match that learned how to light it. He said it just doesn't operate with normal physics.

It's like it learned how to light itself. And then it, not only that it grows itself back and lights itself again and again and again. And so what I love about this practice is that it does point to the mystery of life. And it helps us to get into that state of not knowing of relaxation, which lends us to being in the flow and having a really different relationship with our life and life all around us.

And I know I'm just dropping in a little bit deeper. It's kind of exciting. We're on the frontier of something that's really complimentary that works together. Both Western medicine, Eastern medicine have a lot to offer us in terms of how to live our best lives. And if we use them in the right time, it's like using the tools in your toolbox, in the right way to build the life you want.

Kristel

So true. Yes. And I would love to just backtrack a little on, like, why did you get into this? I was reading through your bio and it sounds like there was some sort of like an injury, but I would just love for you to share how. You started with this. And then how did you end up then going down that path of like becoming an acupuncturist and now you're doing all sorts of stuff in your docu-series and TV stuff, and you're teaching Qi Gong all over the world.

So I would love for you just to give us that backstory so we can learn a little more. 

Lee

Yeah. There's two, there's two facets to this. It's let's say that it kind of the normal mainstream way story that I explained, and I was a competitive soccer player. I was playing at UC Berkeley. I was starting on this division one team.

I was very excited. I felt like I was just training my whole life for this. Right. And so. Carolyn. It's like the second game of the season. And I jump up in the air and somebody takes my legs out. I land on my tailbone and being that I was like 19 years old. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, it really hurt.

But I played the rest of the game. Well, the next morning when I woke up, I stepped up to bat and my leg collapsed and I was in excruciating pain. And I went to the team doctors. They gave me some cortisone shots. They gave me the painkillers. I mean, three weeks later, I'm still hobbling around campus. They said I was gonna be.

For the season, not only does my back hurt, but I'm depressed. I can't believe it. And the pain medication gave me a really bad stomach ache. So, and the pain is still there. I'm not getting any better. So I remember when I was 10 years old, I trained martial arts and this one master we've all seen these on TV, but this mastery broke a big stack of bricks.

And I was 10 years old. I was. Jaw dropped. Wow. How did you do that? And he said, I did it with cheap and he grabbed me by the G by the neck. And he said, but she is not for hurting people. It's for healing. And I said, I bet he knows something about healing. So I went and saw him. He did some acupuncture on me and he showed me some, what I thought were some weird exercises.

And I did the exercise, got the acupuncture. I was like 70% better the next day. And I went back two or three more times. And in about 10 days I was back playing. I was 95% better. I do my Qi Gong exercises before games and whatnot. And my teammates thought I was weird, but I started showing them and I just really got into it.

And it was really a catalyst for me to get into the Eastern healing arts and the Eastern medicine, because I couldn't figure out, Hey, why aren't more people doing this? Why are we taking just medication, maybe that has a side effect or doesn't work, or the efficacy or the frustrations of sitting in doctor's offices.

Why aren't we empowering ourselves? With our own internal medicine from the inside out. And so from there, what I did is I did about 12 trips over the next three or four years in my early twenties to Asia. And I got hired by a well-known. Qi Gong master over there. And I wrote I was his ghost. I mean, I just kind of wrote books behind the scenes for him and worked for him and studied and learned.

And when I go to Thailand, I'd stop in Hong Kong and China and Indonesia and Japan. And I just study with as many healing artists as I could. And I just wanted to make it accessible to my soccer player, friends and my friends that were working in Silicon valley and getting all stressed out. And that just became a passionate.

Kristel

And that's one of the reasons that I absolutely loved your teachings. And I was telling you this before I hit the record button, when I was practicing integrative psychiatry back when I was practicing as a PA, I would see people coming in so stressed out, overwhelmed. Anxiety all of the rest of it. And I was trying to give them like tools they could use in a short amount of time to de-stress and Qi Gong and your video specifically, I loved because they were approachable, especially for people who were very new to Qi Gong and it can be a little bit. Out of people's comfort zone because it's not as common here in America as it is in some other places. So I think some people, you know, that are listening are like, I don't even know what Qi Gong really is, but they might know what yoga is.

For example, like that's a little bit more mainstream. So how would you. Differentiate. Qi Gong compared to something like a yoga practice. 

Lee

Okay. So it's really similar. Yoga comes from India and they work with Pronto. Qi Gong comes from China that worked with she Prada, and Qi are the same term for life force energy.

And in yoga, there's doing breathing and poses and stretches. Now, when Qi Gong to similar, we do breathing and stretches as well, but there's more flow to it. It's a little more gentle. You don't have to have a mat. Yoga clothes, you could do it right in your jeans or your street clothes. It's really accessible and it's effective.

It's kind of effective for getting us what we want. And if you think about what people want, it really comes down to these two things. They want less stress and they want more energy. And that is really what Qi Gong is about. Now, where do you carry your stress? It might be your neck and shoulders. It might be your low back.

You might have discomfort. You might have pain. So stressful manifests in a variety of ways in our body. And in our mental, emotional bodies, and we really work on clearing that stress, transforming it. So part of the practice of Qigong is called transform stress into vitality. So it's like yoga and it's also like tight sheet, but it's easier.

It's easier to do, but it gives you the same practical benefits. And so I find that Qi Gong is accessible. It's practical. You can do it on a day to day basis. You can do it in 15 minutes. Shorter. In fact, Or you could do it in a whole hour class. I mean, we don't all have enough time to go to the gym and exercise, go to a yoga class and then do a mindfulness meditation.

Well, Qi Gong and gives you all of that in one class. And the synergy of it makes it very, very powerful and. The thing that differentiates Qi Gong from, let's say yoga is flow. We're going to slow down. We're going to move our body slowly with flow. Because as you slow down your body, you start to slow down your mind.

As you slow down your mind, you unwind mental stress and drop into the moment. So it makes meditation. Very very easy. In fact, you relax into meditation. You don't have to try to meditate because quieting our mind is quite challenging. And so it helps us to get us all those things that we want. And then the benefit of it.

You get a lot more energy, you feel charged up. In fact, then Qi Gong and they say, Hey, why don't you guys start your day with a lightening flash of vitality. And that's why you see in Asia people going to the parks and doing their practices because they start their day with this boost of energy and mental clarity.

And it feels really good. 

Kristel

One of the things that I loved when I've done Qi Gong or the tapping practices, the tabbing and the shaking, I don't know what it is about it. I just gives me energy and I feel like it's a release and people, if they saw me doing it probably would be like, that's weird, but it works.

Lee

You know, it works right. You know, who does all those exercises watch the Olympic. Watch your three-year-old. They do all kinds of those things. In fact, they're very natural to do. When we get stressed out, people will naturally shake and animals do that too. Zebra that gets chased by a lion and then gets away.

You see their skin shake and tremble. Guess what? The zebra next year doesn't say, remember that time that lion chased me. It discharges all that stress. Right. And so we can do that on a daily basis. The tapping you're working on pressure point. And the shaking is an intuitive way that we discharge energy. It's called transforming stress into vitality and us as modern people, we get a little too stiff.

We hold onto things and we hold tension unnecessarily. So, and so when you do that shaking or the tapping of some of those Qi Gong exercises, you're actually taking the energy that you already have, but you're making it a bit. And most of us hold our energy as muscle contraction and that's very mismanaged energy, and that's why we get tired.

Well, you, of course, you're tired because you've been contracting your muscles all day and it's tiring. So let's be better energy managers so that we have more energy available to do the things that we actually want to do and not feeling depleted fatigue down or depressed. Let's transform that into something that's more useful.

Kristel

I love that. And I want to go into some like quick accessible things that people can use at work. I just recently spoke to a class at Northwestern, a bunch of PA students, and I actually shared some, Qi Gong exercises with them and I like took breaks during the talk. I had them shake and. It was fun. And I also showed them, I can't remember the name of it, Lee, but I'm sure you can tell me it's where you breathe in with their hands up and you can go up over your head and then you breathe out I taught them that.

Lee

Buddha holds up the earth it’s a called breathing exercise. 

Kristel

Yes. And so I wanted to give them just a couple, like tangible things that they could use to like reset during the day. Obviously they have intensive school schedules and then it's going to translate to intensive careers as seeing patients. So what are some of your favorite like resets when people are short on time during the work day.

Lee

First of all, that's so awesome that you taught some, Qi Gong. That's great. Wonderful. And you know, it's so good because you can use some Qi Gong exercises. I call them cheat breaks. You just take a couple of little exercises and you integrate them into your day. Now in the Workday. What do people do they use?

You sit too long. And when we sit too long, it's going to create stagnation of energy. In fact, if you get on a six hour plane flight, nobody gets off the plane and say, oh my God, I just sat for six hours in a tight little cramped space. I feel so good. No, we need to feel good. You actually need to move your body.

And so Qi Gong was called the practice and the. Uh, preventing disease and prolonging life. And if you want health and longevity, you need to move your body and strategic way movement is just so key. So when we're sitting at work, we can do movements in our chair. And the first place I like to start is checking in with our breathing, because breath is life.

I mean life for Senator. We talk about she, where do we get energy from? Where we get it from food and drink and that cup of coffee, but breath is actually your quickest source to energy. So check in with your breathing. If you can breathe longer and slower and deeper, you're going to boost your energy automatically.

So what is the perfect breath? It's about five seconds. In in, through the nose and about five seconds out and out through the nose. You just so we can all try that. A nice, slow, deep breath. Where do you want the breath to move in your torso? You want it to start in your belly? And you want it to rise up to your chest.

So its belly and then through the ribs and all the way up to the chest, it's called a wave breath. So you inhale slow and you exhale slow. Now, if you could do that for about one minute, you reset. And the best thing about this kind of breathing is that it helps to transform stress. You just start to dissipate that stress.

The other thing you can do is you can breathe. It's called spinal cord breathing. Now you take that breath and you're going to have your hands by your shoulder. And then you just inhale and look up and then exhale, and you bring your chin to your chest and round your back. And you just keep doing that.

Nice and slow inhale, look up exhale and round. And I know probably listeners can't see me, but it's a very simple exercise. You just moving your arching up and then you're rounding forward. And it's a little bit like a yoga exercise that cat cow, but movement of your spine can be really helpful to reset your nervous system.

Kristel, can I show people how to feel their Qi? Let me show you how to feel your Qi in less than 30 seconds, because we were talking about Qi and those activations. Show you, and also you could do this listening. I'm going to teach you some pressure point therapy to wake up your energy, and it's going to wake it up in your hands.

First and foremost, you take your fingernails and you touch them together so that your feet, four fingers, and then you just rub them back and forth. You rub your fingernails back and forth that first knuckle also rubs back and forth. Now the ends of your energy pathways that they're called meridians. Or at your fingertips.

And so when you do this vigorously, so everybody go ahead and do that. Unless you're driving, don't do it when you're driving, rubbing back and forth vigorously, and then take some of those deep breaths. Just take two of those deep breaths as you rub your fingernails back and forth vigorously, and you will feel what we're talking about about this Qi, this energy.

All right, one more deep breath, exhale. And just put your hands down to your sides and you'll feel this nice tingling, buzzing electricity. That is what they called Qi. Now those skeptics out there as well, that is just nerve current or that is my blood flow. Well, yes, Qi is behind all of that because nerve current is electricity.

It's bio electricity. It's not the same electricity. That you plug in your devices into the wall socket because you cannot create life from that kind of electricity. This is a mysterious electricity, and it is behind the nervous system it's in your brain. And it's that electrical spark that we talked about earlier behind your heartbeat. And we can start to feel it with the right exercises. And when you feel it, you can work with it. And when you work with it, you can take charge of your life in new and improved ways.

Kristel 

I love that!

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Transition as well. So I was talking to you Lee, before we started recording about how I would use it when I was practicing clinically, before I'd come home, like to transition from the Workday to family time. So what are some tips you have for people to utilize this practice as a transition and maybe, you know, a lot more people are working from home.

So it's like transitioning from work mode to family mode or personal time mode, or if you're still going into the office. As transitions, what would you suggest for people?

Lee

And this is a really good time to do it because transitional times are important. It's like when we wake up in the morning to start our day, we have our little rituals and I might suggest incorporating some Qi Gong exercises as part of the rituals, because what do we do?

We want more energy. So we drink a cup of. We want to wake ourselves up. This is going to wake you up in a different way without a caffeine crash. So I would say that's a really good time to try some Qi Gong. And now do you have to think how much time do I have and is it worth those seven minutes? Seven minutes is a great amount of time for those transitional times.

Before you go get in the car in the morning, before you jump on your computer, get some energy pumped up because listen, you don't have time not to do Qi Gong. People say, oh, I don't have time to do Qi Gong. Well, actually you don't have time not to because when you are low energy and you're stressed out, you're less efficient.

You don't get as much done. You don't have as much clarity. Your work is it's not at its best. Even your parenting skills aren't as sharp and as clear. So I feel like this practice helps you to be your best self in whatever you're doing. You bring your best energy into your work, into your parenting, whatever you're doing.

More of yourself that you want to be now the same is true. Let's say in the middle of the day, we talked about what you can do, let's say at your desk just to boost a little bit of energy, but coming home is another time where when you finish work, how do we let the stress of the Workday go and be present for our families or whatever else we want to.

Or even just be able to relax. Some people have such a hard time to shut it down, to quiet their minds, to enter in a calm state of tranquility or even inner peace that we're actually all seeking. We all want to feel Kant and peaceful in the moment, but we're just stressed out because our minds are just in the.

Scenario is about future planning. And if we can just drop into the moment and cultivate that inner peace, it can be extremely beneficial to our health and healing. And so at the end of the day, just to take a little time to go outside or step into another room and do another. Five to 10 minutes of a practice, or if you can, you do a 20 minute practice or an hour practice and you really see how good you could feel because sometimes your best energy is only about 15, 20 minutes away.

And these exercises help you to get from where you are, maybe stressed out, contracted into a different state where you're coming forth with your best energy. 

Kristel

I love that. I'm going to be sharing a link so you can try two weeks of Qi Gong and access all these awesome exercises. So that's going to be in the episode details.

I also want to talk briefly about using Qi Gong for kids. Or tweens and teenagers. And there's hard stages in there for kids when they're going through lots of changes. And what are some things, would it be the same type of exercises for kids? And especially now I know a lot of kids are struggling. Cause last year a lot of them were remote and now they're back.

And so just curious what tips you may have for the. Listening who maybe wants some resources for their children. 

Lee

Yeah, that's great. And I have twin teenagers, so I have two 13 year old daughters and, you know, it's a real different phase. All of a sudden they go from like 11 or 12 and 13 and they become different people.

It was like a real transformation and people really struggle with that. But it's really helped me. We haven't had any yelling, screaming, slamming doors, this, that, and even though I really try to center myself when I talk to them, because they are a little bit edgy, they're a little bit moody. They're irrational, they're coming from their emotions.

You know, all of a sudden they go from like sitting in your lap to just going to their rooms and wanting to be with their friends. And we all need a little bit of like, how do we transition? So we've been talking about transitions in our day, but life stage transitions. How do we work with that? Both as parents

Kristel

Yep.

Lee

And as what can we do for our kids, because we want the best for our kids and they don't necessarily want the best for themselves. They just want to do their own thing. They'll be like, eat healthy, go to sleep at night, you know, like we're always kind of like, and so it's funny, you said this because I just did a Qi Gong for kids with my teenagers yesterday.

We did a fine animal practice and it'll come up on YouTube. I have a couple of clips with the kids in there that are quite funny. So, if you look on my YouTube, the Holden Qi Gong, YouTube, you'll find some kids routines there.

Kristel

Love it!

Lee

But I think it's really important. And what I do, if you try this two weeks subscription, get your kids to do a couple exercise.

Hey, come on, kids. Let's do this funny stuff. And they usually like. And it usually helps them to really charge up. The sweet spot is the five to 10 year olds. They love it. Teenagers. You have to frame it in particular ways. What I do is I frame it because Qi Gong came from martial arts and the martial artists all use Qi Gong exercises to strengthen their bodies or to heal themselves from injury.

That's where a lot of these exercises sprung forth from. So it is about empowerment is about healing. It's about calmness and clear. It's so good for kids. There's a lot to say about an and it's something that's really on my mind being that I have children at that age. And so I want to create some more programming for them.

Kristel

I love that!

And my kids, they know a lot of Qi Gong cause I would have them do it with me. They wouldn't last very long, but they would do like at least a few minutes and then they would, you know, get distracted and do other stuff but.

Lee

Yeah, it was just like, Yeah, you're just planting seeds, you know, you know, 10 years from now, they're going to go like, like me, you, what was that crazy stuff that I used to do?

That felt pretty good. And I feel like that's when they come back around or when they're in high school, you know, what it does is it helps you to focus your mind to get clarity. And these guys I've seen them with their friends, doing Qi Gong or showing their friends pressure points or lying down and doing a meditation, things like that.

I was like, whoa, they're all in their room with four friends. And they're all breathing and doing Qi gong exercise. I was like, okay, cool. The seeds are starting to. Blossom. 

Kristel

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So we are coming towards the end, Lee, but I want you to briefly share a little bit about your docu-series cause that sounds super cool.

And then anything else that you want to share and we're going to do a, kind of a fun, quick wellness lightning round at the end where I ask you some quick questions. 

Lee

Okay, beautiful. Well, you know, you've mentioned the two week free trial, so basically a two week free trial is you come to class with me. You can come to class with me live.

Or the classes are videotaped and you can do them at your own pace. They're on demand. And so I love that people can just try that, see if this practice is for you. And we always break up those classes into an hour routine with a meditation, or we edit it down to a 20 minute routine. So you got, always have that choice, a short version or long version.

You know, Chris, I've been three years, this is going around the world. It started off with looking for. Qi Gong people or healers. And what we found, we started finding incredible people with healing abilities, energetic capacities, martial arts abilities. And we said, who are these most extraordinary people in this field?

And we usually get to see the athletes that are extraordinary or the performers, but we don't really see people in the energetic art. So we wanted to go find those people. So. An anthropologist. He's a colleague of mine, his name's David  follows him along his path that he has been doing for the last 30 years.

And we found yogis. They're doing incredible stuff. Russian psychics, martial arts masters. They're doing. Mind boggling things. Let me just say it that way. And we put it in a whole docu-series, but we didn't want to just impress people. We wanted people to learn. So there's a bunch of education, the masters and David and myself.

We're all teaching people, different techniques as you go through the course and you get some education as well. And that's at superhuman experience.io. If you want to go see a free app. 

Kristel

Amazing. All right. Lee, anything else that you want to share before I ask you a few fun, quick questions.

Lee

Go ahead ask me some fun questions.

Kristel

Alright. So first question is you are on a deserted desert island and you can only bring three foods with you. And that's the only thing you're going to be able to eat while you're there. And you don't know how long you're going to be. There could be a really, really long time. What are the three foods that you would bring?

Lee

Unbelievable. This question is exactly what my ten-year-old asks me every day. Those kinds of things, right. Dad, dad, dad. Okay. I'm going to definitely bring avocados. I love avocados. I love chocolate too. So some dark chocolate. Now I feel like I got my antioxidants and my oils. Oh, gosh, what else am I going to break?

I'm going to just go with something super healthy, like broccoli. 

Kristel

All right. Good choice. Love it. Okay. Second question. What is something that you are currently working on? Something like a personal development thing personally, you are currently working on.

Lee

I'm doing a really deep dive into breath, work, breath, work, and extreme kind of a situation.

So I'm doing breathing practice in cold and very cold water. I have a cold plunge and so that's kind of my cutting edge right now is how can I stay in, you know, 42 degrees and last five to 10 minutes by staying calm with my breathing. That's my personal edgy practice right now. 

Kristel

How's that going? 

Lee

It's going great.

Costa Rican. Love it. I mean, if I can do calm, slow breathing and stay relaxed and Copeland to the rest of the day easy. 

Kristel

Nice. All right. Another question for you. We're going to do two more. What is a book you've read recently that you love?

Lee

Uh, the art of impossible. By Steven Kotler, he's the flow genome master.

And this book, the art of impossible really liked it. Great. Evidence-based scientific. He talks about flow state and everything else, but from a Western perspective. So it really helped to translate some of the Eastern concepts of flow with a Western mindset and a scientific background. 

Kristel

Love it. All right.

And last question I have for you Lee, knowing what you know now, what advice would you have given to yourself from 10 years ago? 

Lee

Ah, great advice to myself 10 years ago. Relax, cultivate more experiences. Don't put so much attention, energy on financial responsibility. Gotcha. 

Kristel

Awesome. Well, this has been amazing.

I'm really excited to share this with everyone listening to this practice, which I've absolutely loved. So thank you so much, Lee. It's been really, really fun to chat. 

Lee

Thanks so much. Kristel was great.

Kristel Bauer
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